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Did the historical Jesus really exist? | Page 8

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by nick jacoby, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. jgarner Brown Belt

    jgarner
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    Yep! People have drawn wild conclusions from a few pieces of unverifiable writings.

    You're making my point. It's nearly impossible to figure out exactly what was happening back then, and that's why historians today don't make the bold assertions about past events that Christians and other religious groups make. Just because something is written down doesn't mean it actually happened. So even if there is a document that says Jesus did something, no rational person would assume that it happened without independent evidence to support it.

    Some of the most well known historical figures that aren't supernatural in origin and action have disputed histories despite tons of independent evidence. You have to look at the motivations and information available to the writer and take all the factors into account.

    On top of that, I often go to the bullshit test. If someone told you that today would you believe it? If someone came up and told you that the girl down the street was pregnant and when questioned she claimed to be a virgin and that God impregnated her, would you believe her or say bullshit? If someone told you that a guy resurrected himself and disappeared , would you believe it? Those gullible, superstitious, uneducated, people from decades after Jesus's supposed life believed it, but I don't. People still believe crazier shit to this day so I'm not surprised. I just refuse to believe irrational things. We have science now.
     
    #141
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  2. Bob Gray Deadlights Belt

    Bob Gray
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    I think we have a miscommunication somewhere. You're saying you aren't convinced. Which is fine and I wouldn't argue over it because I agree. My point was only the statement of "zero" evidence, which is not true.

    I agree that the evidence is not in and of itself enough to convince and persuade. That said, for the time period it and the methodology of piecing together ancient history, the case is actually stronger than many things that people accept as historical without any problems.

    Even so, the extraordinary claims would require more than what they currently possess to convince me. However, that evidence still exists, even if it's found wanting considering the enormity of the claims. That's one of my biggest things hindering me from accept a divine Jesus Christ. Why come back 3 days later and tell the people that already believed you? If he had resurrected and come and shown someone like Pontius that would have made a much more compelling case as Pilate would have been sure to say "Holy fuck" and make sure everyone in the world knew about it.

    But again, there is decent amount of evidence for it, just not enough to convince me 2,000 years removed from the event.
     
    #142
  3. colby25 Brown Belt

    colby25
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    Jesus rose and showed Himself to a lot of people- a crowd of 500 at a time. Most people were converted at the time of the Holy Spirit though...

    Seeing diseases get healed instantaneously, tongues spoken among other miracles. You dont have to depend on ancient text to decide you can decide by the evidence in your life because Jesus is alive, the Holy Spirit is real and if you call out to Jesus in faith He will reveal Himself to you

    Theres a lot more to life than what you can see. Your point of existence is more than just live a good life and die.

    Take care
     
    #143
  4. colby25 Brown Belt

    colby25
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    Would you really love to be wrong? Denying Christ youre only savior- and you want to be wrong?

    I got bad news for you- you are wrong and without Christ you will not enter the kingdom of heaven
     
    #144
  5. Supereem Black Belt

    Supereem
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    "Just because something is written down doesn't mean it actually happened" - You can say that about anything or anyone. How do I know Alexander the Great was real? Do we have a body? Our main sources were written hundreds of years after his death.
     
    #145
  6. Pwent Five Star Man

    Pwent
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    i think only the most militant atheists will say that he didnt exist at all

    almost all historians agree he existed, the question is about his divinity
     
    #146
  7. Pwent Five Star Man

    Pwent
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    who the fuck doesnt believe muhammad was real

    he sacked mecca and conquered arabia

    i dont believe he was a prophet, just a warlord who was good at leading his tribe, but there is plenty of evidence that he exists

    what youre saying is similar to saying L Ron Hubbard didnt exist because scientology is rubbish
     
    #147
  8. Codger Brown Belt

    Codger
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    We have coins with his head on.
     
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  9. HeirApparent E.S.A.L

    HeirApparent
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    LMAO
     
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  10. Supereem Black Belt

    Supereem
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    How do you know he was a person and not a made up God? ;). I'm being stupid but so are the pseudo-historians in this thread.
     
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  11. JonnyRingo84 Gold Belt

    JonnyRingo84
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    was he a real man? probably. so was siddhartha gautama (the buddha). so was muhammad.

    did they really do the supernatural things claimed of them? i dont think so. that's an issue of faith.
     
    #151
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  12. melvinj0 Gold Belt

    melvinj0
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    I'm like 90% sure it was just some time traveler fucking with a bunch of dumb ancient people.
     
    #152
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  13. Big Tuppy Hole Gold Belt

    Big Tuppy Hole
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    Jews dont work construction
     
    #153
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  14. jgarner Brown Belt

    jgarner
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    What evidence are you talking about? There is zero evidence of any supernatural/metaphysical events. There is only slight evidence of his existence.


    Well yeah, It would be nice for there to be a happy fluffy reason we all exist and an afterlife that's amazing. The facts just don't support that claim though.


    Oh come on. Don't be an idiot. Alexander the Great has thousands of different pieces of independent evidence of his existence coming from countless sources. Even with someone as well documented as Alexander, there are still disputes between historians as to things he is said to have done. With Jesus, there's barely documentation that he was alive to begin with, let alone any supporting evidence of any of his actions. If you really think the evidence for the existence of Alexander the Great is as bad as the evidence for Jesus and his actions, then you need to go back to school.
     
    #154
  15. Sanctus White Belt

    Sanctus
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    One day, Peter wanted to go to a prostitute and talked to God about it.

    Peter: God, I want to go to a prostitute but I don't know which planet has the best women. I'm thinking of Mars but what do you think

    God: No way man!! Mars has ugly green women. Don't go there!!

    Peter: What about Venus?

    God: Forget it! With your bouncer's paycheck, you can't afford those fine ladies.

    Peter: Well, maybe the Earth!!

    God: Fuck no Peter!!!!!!! Don't do it!!!!!!!! I went there more than 2000 years ago, banged a carpenter's wife and they still talk about it!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #155
  16. Bob Gray Deadlights Belt

    Bob Gray
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    It's already been mentioned several times. The written accounts of his existence are evidence. The fact that it doesn't convince either you or me does not mean it isn't evidence. This is not a difficult concept.
     
    #156
  17. Bob Gray Deadlights Belt

    Bob Gray
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    I would agree with you that belief in the divinity is an intrinsic thing. Written accounts alone would do little to convince anyone.

    However you do touch on one of the other factors that hinders my being able to accept Jesus' divinity. Mainly that, if true, people lucky enough to be born at the right place and time in history were able to see first hand the divine son of god work his miracles. That alone is far greater than anything I could be expected to accept being thousands of years removed from the event. It hardly seems justified to allow a small group of people to have what is essentially a free ticket to faith and an eternity in heaven, while expecting people thousands of years later to have the same amount of faith with far less convincing evidence, yet incurring the same penalty for not having said faith.
     
    #157
  18. Mainez Brown Belt

    Mainez
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    Yes he really existed, but he was just an ordinary man. ​
     
    #158
  19. colby25 Brown Belt

    colby25
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    The Holy Spirit is what we have today.

    John 16 7

    But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    Not necessarily a free ticket...look at Judas as well.
     
    #159
  20. Brodels Purple Belt

    Brodels
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    It fucking infuriates me when I agree with you.
     
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