Game of Thrones S07E07 Discussion Thread: FinallyJumpedTheDragon (No Spoilers/Leaks) | Page 190

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by Lethal, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Gregolian All the Chicken

    Gregolian
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    "How did someone as mad as you live this long"
    "I'm good at killing people"
     
    #3781
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  2. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I strongly suspect it is going somewhere next season with that scene between Mel and Varys this time around seeming to hint at a future link between them. It will be interesting to see whether Mel just turns up again or whether we actually get a scene of her in Volantis, maybe with that other priestess putting in an appearance? I could potentially see that being an opener for next season.
     
    #3782
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  3. LuchaBear The Last Son Of Harpy

    LuchaBear
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    I would love to see some type of Red Priest army make an appearance.
     
    #3783
  4. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I'm thinking maybe a scene in the Temple with Mel and the other priestess in discussion with the former desiding to return to Westeros. One big unknown I spose is whether we are ever going to find out exactly who/what the Lord of Light is, I must admit I'm giving up hope on that somewhat but perhaps not totally. My own guess would be that theres no "god" in operation here and its actually just the innate power that the people involve have.
     
    #3784
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  5. KojiW Purple Belt

    KojiW
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    The answer is zero.

    Martin has been slow as fuck writing since becoming rich and famous.

    Long before the TV show was on.

    We already covered this several times.

    I started reading these books as a teenager.

    Book 1: August 1996
    Was widely recommended by Robert Jordan, which is why I tried it out

    Book 2: February 1999
    Ended up making the bestseller list, beginning GRRM's rise to fame and money

    Book 3: November 2000
    Seasons 3 and 4 of the show
    Won several best novel awards and the money and endorsements started pouring in. GRRM at this point decided to start doing more book signings, fan meetings with Q and A and enjoying his wealth. His weight ballooned.

    Previously, his blogs were amazing. He would release early sample chapters to feed the appetite of fans with regularity. But a polar shift occurred after he became very rich between 2000-2005. His blogs started being less and less about his book series and more Ric Flair like talking about enjoying his immense wealth and going to Football games and meeting with his "adoring fans". He talked more about his "sandbox"(Fantasy world) in general than about the current story. He was advertising book 4 being done by 2002, but had less sample chapters than normal out. By 2003, fans were asking and then he just kept delaying. Eventually he announced half the characters(Dany, Tyrion, Jon Snow) would not be in book 4 as he focused on the other half. HUGE disappointment and then it did not come out till......

    Book 4: November 2005
    Book was decent, but a huge disappointment as it lacked 3 crucial characters.

    Between this book and book 5 was more of the same blog nonsense. Yes yes you are rich and famous, but by 2007 he said he would stop giving updates since it is going to take a lot longer than he thought. While constantly blogging on enjoying his wealth and fame. Occasionally you get a "I wrote 2 pages this week! That's the most I have written in the last year in one sitting. Well, off to a football game and next week I have another meet and greet with fans in England."

    I am not shitting you either. Anyone who followed his blog hoping for tidbits will tell you the same.

    Insult to injury was when he called Robert Jordan out for allowing another to finish the Wheel of time after he died. He went out and called Robert Jordan out(After he died). He said it is disgraceful that jordan allowed another to play in his sandbox wheel of time(Jordan wanted to make sure the loyal fans who were there since 1990 got the ending they deserved) and that if he died, we would NEVER see the books finished because nobody writes in his world but him and that he has taken legal steps to make sure it can never happen after he dies.
    [​IMG]

    Being 65 and morbidly obese, he is already past his life expectancy, so that is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

    There are a lot of blogs from other authors telling us "GRRM is not your bitch" since we complain a lot over him not writing and defending his lack of writing, telling us he has no obligation to finish anything , etc

    In any case, book 5: July 2011

    The last thing that happened in this book was Jon Snow being killed by the night watch.

    If you think GRRM is anywhere near finished his book series, you are sadly mistaken. He is not even finished book 6. He is not even working exclusively on it.

    He is working on his book fire and blood, which is a 2 book volume giving us the history of each Targaryen king(Like a DnD sourcebook) and has nothing to do with the current story. He is working on Winds of Winter too, but has been since 2011. He also is releasing a short story about Aynys and Maegor Targaryen in some other anthology which apparently took him years to write. A short story took him years to write.

    He is also helping HBO with FOUR GOT spinoff shows.

    His latest info on the matter stated he was not sure what book he would finish first, but both were Months away.(For posterity, last time he said the book was months away was in 2003 when giving updates on book 4) and he followed it by saying we "Might" get a Westeros book(Either fire and blood or Winds of Winter) from him in 2018, but he was not sure(He gave this update 2 months ago)

    To be fair, books 4 and 5 were such large steps down from book 3 that I am happy the show changed a bunch of stuff to spice it up.
     
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  6. moreorless87 Gold Belt

    moreorless87
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    I do actually think that the show can draw some justification from its shifts by the problems Martin has had. A lot of the issues he's had after the 3rd book have you could argue been down to not wanting to shift his style as the story has progressed. That is he has stuck with a very detailed and drawn out style constantly introducing new characters and ever expanding the scope of the narrative more akin to the start of a story than its conclusion.

    The show on the other hand has I would say moved much more in the direction of collapsing the narrative towards a conclusion, fewer new characters and a general streamlining of plots that's happened over the last 2-3 seasons to the degree we now pretty much have all the pieces in place for a finale.

    I'm guessing that Martin has had a good idea how he is going to finish the story for awhile, his problem is potentially much more in how to transition from a complex political plot to a simpler heroic plot.
     
    #3786
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  7. Thuckey My love for you is diarrhea, I can't hold it in

    Thuckey
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    I feel like the very end of the series will have some sort of "ooooh woah" moment like with Hodor and the Door. Like a holyshit it was THAT all along and somewhat has something to do with WhiteWalkers and their motivations or whatever. Or to highlight the fact that humans just cant work together to overcome adversity - everybody wants to do their own thing. Things seem good enough now, but perhaps there will be conflict between Jon And Dany once they learn of his true identity and of course with Cersei there will be conflict.

    GRRM has said the ending will be "bittersweet" for the books anwyays, we could end up with something tottally different from the show. It's clear now that the show is way different than the books that the writers are doing more things to please the massses and make good guys win. How much longer until a Red Wedding type scene happens to our beloved characters?

    Another theory is that Jon of course is the Prince that was Promised, and Rhaegar KNEW this and followed the prophecy as much as he could to produce Jon and have him inevitably be "born amidst salt and smoke" and somehow save the world which I think also may be related to Bran/Weirwood tree/ up north magic [ICE] network and Lord of light magic [fire] [song of ice and fire] perhaps. But one thing thats stands out is that to forge the blade Lightbringer which is essential to the prophecy, The Prince [Jon] must kill his lover [Dany] with his own hands.

    That could be the "bittersweet" moment, to save the world Jon must kill his lover Dany and live the rest of his days in sorrow, however the prophecy has been fullfilled and the Long Night is vanquished.


    If you can tell I am a book reader, read them all 3 times and patiently awaiting The Winds of Winter for 7 damn fucking years, but if read the books and see just how much thought and detail is put into each and every line, you can see what takes so long. That and the length and juggling 100 loose plotlines all at once, and it feels like almost every single sentence has a meaning and fits into the book somehow. Hundreds of little "mysteries" and clue are embedded all over the place so much that you overlook half of them easily. My favourite book series off all time easily, I highly reccomend reading through them. They are so interesting and beautifily written as well that reading through them feels like a breeze.
     
    #3787
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  8. AGGAMEMNON66 -----------Villain-----------

    AGGAMEMNON66
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    Not my style. Besides, being wrong today is the same as being wrong tomorrow.
     
    #3788
  9. Thuckey My love for you is diarrhea, I can't hold it in

    Thuckey
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    They were fantastic (In terms of books in general) but yes lacking compared with 1,2,3.

    I think what would have been ideal, is merge the books, cut off alot of fluff -- take away Brienne's chapters, shorten Dany,Jon,Tyrion chapters from Dance at LEAST by half and a lot of other stuff that was primarily for world-building or character development just gone a little too much in depth. After that is done, include the two major battles at the end from Winterfell and Meereen. Then I believe this ONE book would be on par with 1,2, and 3.

    3 was so fucking fantastic and it showed that GRRM could get a LOT of shit done AT a faster pace as well. The second half of the book so many crazy things happen and happen in quick succession so there is no reason for all the long, strung out material in Feast and especially in Dance. (you can tell that he added extra Jon,Dany,Tyrion chapters to bloat the book up more)


    My hopes are high for Winds of Winter (opening up with the two major battles that could not fit in Dance) and most of the setup is finished for "ACT II" of the series so a lot of major developments should be made, with Dream of Spring being ready for the grand finale.

    However I don't have full confidence in GRRM that he will even LIVE for Dream of Spring to be released, or he stretches things out so far (there are so many plotlines to address) that indeed ANOTHER book is needed to fit everything. If he keeps up the same pace as Feast and Dance than I see no other way. However if he has a pace to match Storm than it could be done.
     
    #3789
  10. Renard Brown Belt

    Renard
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    I always interpreted his lack of making a move to his still being into his sister. Now he's been redpilled hard in that regards.
     
    #3790
  11. FyrFytr998 Black Belt

    FyrFytr998
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    Let the man bang. He's old and rich. He should be out living life while he still can.

    If folks want to really motivate him to write, they should stop buying his shit and stop watching the show. We all know that will never happen though, so what does he have to worry about if folks get butt hurt about his progress.
     
    #3791
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  12. KojiW Purple Belt

    KojiW
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    I would agree, if not for him getting on his high horse about how he would never do what Robert Jordan did and let another author finish the series so the fans could have resolution.

    I have always liked the wheel of Time better regardless, so I was heartbroken when I heard Robert Jordan was ill. But he put our minds at ease when he took Sanderson under his wing and assured the fans they would get an ending whether he passed away or not.

    The worst case happened and his illness did prove terminal. But Magically, Sanderson not only did an amazing job in the last 3 books, but he wrote one of the greatest of all time finale books.
     
    #3792
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  13. TheWorm Black Belt

    TheWorm
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    Jesus...

    You know, if he dies I'm ok if the series doesn't get finished by another author. Hunters and Sandworms of Dune were fucking garbage, and Brian Herbert should be ashamed of what he and Kevin J. Anderson did with the Dune franchise.

    That being said, I would like it if GRRM's estate would release his notes or drafts of whatever he's got done on books 6 and/or 7 if he died before they're released. I'd just like a better clue of where he's going with some of his stuff.

    Frankly I wish they had done that with Dune. Herbert Jr. claimed that Dune 7 & 8 were based off of notes left by his father, but I don't believe him one bit. I think he's a shameless fucking liar, and he sold those books on the lie that they're the brainchild of his Dad, when in fact the books are more of a sequel to the story laid out in the Butlerian Jihad trilogy written by Jr. and Anderson, instead of being a real sequel to Dune 5 & 6. Killer robots... What a crock of shit.
     
    #3793
  14. KojiW Purple Belt

    KojiW
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    Completely different scenario.

    Herbert died in 85-96 and his son went and got a Magic the Gathering or Star wars expanded universe hack to help him Co-Write those books after discovering his fathers sparse notes(Sure ya did) that appeared a decade after his death.



    Robert Jordan knew his health was failing and made hundreds of detailed notes and audio recordings of himself, completely mapped out what needed to happen and made sure fans got an amazing resolution.

    And that we did as Sanderson's 3 Wheel of time books were all amazing. I thought it would be impossible to tie up the zillion loose threads in that WOT series. Wheel of time had so many plot threads by book 11 that it made Martin's books look simple to tie up in comparison from where we sit now. But Sanderson did it and in Epic fashion.
     
    #3794
  15. ufcfan4 Can't Andle The Riddum

    ufcfan4
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    Don't know anything about Wheel of Time's plot but know the books were widely popular. Heard they were going to make a TV series adaptation. Do you know anything about that? As a fan, do you think it could be epic on GOT level or do you worry an adaptation might screw the pooch.
     
    #3795
  16. TheWorm Black Belt

    TheWorm
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    I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying that if GRRM is dead set against doing what Jordan did with Sanderson then I'd rather them just end it with his death than to see what happened with the Herberts and Dune happen to ASOIAF.
     
    #3796
  17. KojiW Purple Belt

    KojiW
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    Could screw the pooch unless they budget very high for special effects.

    GOT is a completely different world. Its started like King Arthur and the knights of the round table with a bit of magic for the most part and they slowly introduced more and more magic. Fans of rome could immediately relate to GOT because the politics and feel of the show were near the same, Minus magic in rome of course.

    WOT is straight up fantasy epic. Magic and Monsters from the get go and less politics and very few twists. Lord of the rings style. Very few important characters die until the very end of the series and the good guys win. The powers in WOT would be more akin to watching X-men than GOT, which holds magic to a minimum.

    While Game of thrones was widely inspired by the game of houses in Wheel of time, the game of houses plays such a minor roles in WOT that fans expecting the same politics would be disappointed.
     
    #3797
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  18. Daverisimo Unwashed Vagrant

    Daverisimo
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    If you think GRRM is frustrating, try being a fan of Berserk. Honestly, between ASOIAF and Berserk, I'm pretty much ruined for unfinished/ongoing fantasy series.
     
    #3798
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  19. Thread Im Da Best Mayne

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    Assassin confirmed Lord of the Light
     
    #3799
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  20. Thread Im Da Best Mayne

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    I hope those 2 scissors each other by a bonfire and get a vision.
     
    #3800
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